How to Illustrate Like a Boxer – Interview w/ Commercial Artist Marcelo Vignali

This week the staff here at Fuel Your Illustration is proud to introduce a very special guest: Marcelo Vignali. Vignali is currently a Visual Development Artist for Sony Pictures Animation but he’s been working in the field of commercial art since 1985. During that time, he has worked on a variety of projects that span television to feature films for some of the largest entertainment studios in the industry including Walt Disney, DiC Entertainment and Sony Pictures.

My Co-Editor, Nikki Jeske, and I were recently lucky enough to get a few moments of Vignali’s time to discuss everything from persevering through educational adversity to the “true origin” of Lara Croft and how boxing can teach you to become a better illustrator. So grab your sketchbook and get ready because Marcelo Vignali is about to take us to school (no stuffy art degrees or high interest loans required).

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I understand that did a bit of boxing when you were young? That’s awesome! Can you tell us a bit more about that experience?

Alas, I have no crusty, sordid tales of my prowess in the world of sweet-science. No tales of bare-knuckle pugilism in some abandoned barn just outside the city jurisdiction. No sweaty, bloodied and battered bodies pounding it out for a meager paycheck from some corrupt boxing promoter — just to get some money for art supplies. There really isn’t much to tell. I boxed between ages 10-11 in a youth boxing club, and then again between ages 16-17 — during which my stable mates were Paul Banke and Zack Padilla, both of whom became world champions in their respective weights. Our gym was very small, but we had a couple really good trainers.

What boxing did taught me was perseverance, training and performance. All the wisdom I still employ in my field of art:

• Working as a commercial artist is highly competitive, so perseverance for artists is very important. Also, discouragement and adversity come from unexpected places, and if we want to succeed we have to have the perseverance to keep fighting.
• Training is equally important. I’ve seen various artists become comfortable in their own success and stop growing. That’s where maintaining one’s skills and growing one’s knowledge is vital to staying relevant in this industry.
• And, lastly, there’s performance. In the same way boxing champions are able to elevate their game to suit the challenge, artists must do the same. You have to raise your game and perform, regardless of the task at hand.

So when did you become interested in illustration?

I became interested in illustration when I was in art school. I’ve always wanted to work in animation, but in 1983 there wasn’t much going on in the world of animation. Illustration seemed like the next logical step for me. I wasn’t interested in abstract “fine art,” so naturally I gravitated towards a field where my skills of creating representational art (the craft of making one’s art something recognizable) would be more useful.

You attended Otis Art Institute/Parson’s School of Design, what was the most important lesson or advice that you received there?

Well, unfortunately I was very dissatisfied with my education at Otis. I believe the early 80s was a Dark Age for students looking to become representational artists. Most of my teachers at Otis were former hippies that fought and won a long hard battle against representational art. To draw or paint things that were representational was seen as philistine, and I was sorely made to feel that condemnation and contempt from my teachers.

That’s where perseverance comes in. I had to hang tough and fight to mold my school’s abstract assignments into assignments that I believed would become useful to me. In my abstract expressionist assignments I would manage to introduce a figure, or representational object, from which to craft and render. In this way, I could continue to educate myself. Fortunately there are a lot of books by which one can learn from. I went to a four year art college, but learned perspective from a $2.00 Walter Foster book.

Throughout my time in school, I continued to draw in my sketchbooks. There, I would develop my ideas, characters, backgrounds and practice rendering exercises. When I landed my first job in animation they weren’t interested in my portfolio, just my sketchbook. In the end, it was my perseverance and belief in what I was doing was right that proved to be more useful to me than my education at Otis.

I’d also like to add that a great many people believe they can’t make it in this industry because they didn’t go to the right school, get the right training, or study from the right teacher. Never let that get in your way. With the easy access to quality art books, art lesson’s on Youtube, schools on the internet, and the blog-sphere a click away, there really isn’t any excuse — if you apply yourself. You must be persevering and unyielding.

Shortly after graduating you made the transition from commercial art to animation. Was there any sort of learning curve between the two fields?

Well, truth be told, I never got my diploma. I was a few classes shy of graduating when I got the opportunity to work in animation. I took the job at DIC Entertainment with the hopes of paying off my school debt, and then going back to school to get my diploma.

However, once in the field I began to realize how little training I had been given at Otis to prepare me for the real-world. The learning curve was huge because my school simply had NOT prepared me for the job market. Despite my attempting to twist the assignments into something I could use, I was still unprepared as an artist.

I realized then that my education at Otis, my assignments, and a diploma were simply rendered irrelevant by the elitist-attitude toward representational art. It simply didn’t make sense to go back to Otis, pay out even more money for tuition in order to get my diploma, so I endeavored to learn as much as I could and continue my education outside of Otis. This goes back to one of those principals I learned while boxing, the importance of training. I began going to figure drawing workshops, and continue to attend them 24 years after I left Otis. The irony is that I now teach figure drawing, and attempt to address the problems most art schools simply don’t teach.

Truth be told, there were a small number of teachers at Otis that were able to draw and paint in the classical sense. Their words were like a lamp unto my feet, and for that I’m very thankful for their instruction. Thanks to Everett, Will, Robert and Al. I’d also like to thank the late Louis Quiarte, my art history teacher — he really opened my eyes.

Figure drawing seems to be a consistent part of your creative process. Speaking to a student, how important is understanding real human anatomy in animation?

Figure drawing is best described like training for a boxer; whether that’s road work, punching the bag or sparing. Even though a fighter understands how to play the game, they still need to train, and figure drawing is that for artists.

Ha! Let’s face it, the opportunities to draw anatomically correct naked people in animation are few and far between, but the skills learned are immeasurable. Because my art education at Otis was so poor, I decided to dedicate myself to becoming a good artist after the fact. To do so I started to regularly attend a weekly uninstructed figure drawing workshop. It wasn’t until I spent three years of figure drawing on my own that I began to see the importance of figure drawing in my professional work.

The importance of getting the anatomy correct is not as important as the whole of drawing: getting the balance, proportions, perspective, musculature, light and shadow, cast shadows and form shadows, construction drawing, design and understanding are all equally as important.

You’ve worked on some classic animated series over the course of your career– what have been a few highlights for you personally?

At DIC, I worked on a variety of television shows. Starcom was my first series, and ALF was my first Saturday morning television show. Captain N: Game Master was the first time I had the lead role as character designer. That’s why those shows in particular will always hold a sweet spot in my memory. It’s like a first kiss, you always remember it.

DIC was also where I met some amazingly talented people, among them being Richie Chavez, Fil Barlow, Dan Quarnstrom, and the amazing Steve Swaja. I still keep in contact with them on a regular basis.

Do you have a favorite character that you’ve created/worked on?

Yes, but it’s a character that never saw the light of day. Years ago I was working for a gaming company and they were looking for an Indiana Jones type character — and wanted me to do some exploration to come up with some new ideas. Among the various characters I designed, I designed a female character — get this — with shorts, combat boots, a crop top, a backpack and pistol. In essence, I had designed Lara Croft. But, the game developers didn’t think the idea was sound and went with a more conventional approach — some brutish looking tough guy. A few years later, completely unrelated, Lara Croft the Tomb Raider would become a sensation.

I find that sort of stuff amusing. It’s important as an artist to be cutting edge, and provide employers with the “right” choices, even if the ideas aren’t recognized at the time.

After that you moved onto Disney where you worked feature films like Lilo & Stich and Atlantis. How did it feel to take on your first role as Art Director for Surf’s Up (2007)?

Surf’s Up was a joy to work on. Aside from a few problems, I really enjoyed the work and my crew.

Working as an artist on various projects through out the years really did prepare me for my role as Art Director. One of the biggest problems other projects have had is that they don’t trust their team. I have found that in animation no one person, no matter how talented, has all the answers. And, if an art director, production designer, director, or producer believes they have all the answers, the project will never be better than that single person. Whereas, successful films are a collaboration where every player involved plays to their strength. This only happens with trust – trusting the team is essential because animation is a team effort.

You received an Annie Award nomination for that film, right?

Yes, I did, but film credits can be deceiving. I appreciate the recognition from the academy of my peers, but there were so many hands lending their skills into that project that it seems unfair that individuals would be singled out for their achievements, as opposed to singling out the team for their achievements.

Paul Lasaine was the Production Designer on Surf’s Up, and needed to be nominated as well for his tireless efforts. He was also the ideal production designer, allowing and encouraging everyone — including me — to work at their strength. I owe him a lot.

Going back to Lilo & Stitch for a second, is it true they didn’t tell you Stitch was a alien until late into production?

Yeah! I was freelancing from Utah at the time, and the Disney company was struggling with its competitors for protection of its intellectual properties. The directors Dean DeBlois and Chris Sanders wanted to work with me, but it was a risk for them since I was not at the studio. So, they had to be carefully guarded. They asked me to develop designs around Hawaii, and they gave me assignments about the little girl and the house she lived in, but nothing about Stitch — other than he was a dog. After a while I think they had forgotten that they hadn’t told me the full story and just presumed that I understood that Stitch was an alien. Months later I incredulously remarked to Dean into the phone, “What! STITCH IS AN ALIEN?” There was silence on the other end of the telephone, and then laughter! Both of us had a good laugh about it, and he cleared things up right away.

Chris and Dean are wonderful to work for. I think they are the embodiment of a team effort, and their projects reflect that the entire team is working at its strength.

You mentioned on your blog that you got to go snorkeling in Hawaii as research for that film– what sort of life experiences has your career opened up that you might not have gotten to do otherwise?

Yes, I’ve been fortunate in that way. Working for Walt Disney Imagineering I had the opportunity to do a little traveling. One of the high points was traveling to New York to meet with the people at the Jim Henson Studio. And, I got a chance to meet Jim Henson himself.

Wait– you met Jim Henson?! I have admit, I’m more than a little jealous right now.

That certainly ranks at the one of the top of my experiences.

So after a decade at Disney what prompted the decision to go freelance?

Well, the idea was to leave the hustle and bustle of the big city, and raise my family in a more family friendly environment. But when the animation business began to change from 2D to CG, I realized that I had to come back to California if I wanted to remain relevant to the industry. It was the right choice, and I learned a little something about myself and my family.

I know it sounds hokey, but home really is where the heart is at. There is no magical place where the grass is always greener, and every place has pros and cons. The reality is that the best place to raise a family is in a loving home.

Earlier this year you and several other artists at Sony Pictures Animation began a new comic project. Can you give us any details on what the book is about?

Well, there’s no title as of yet, but we’re calling it the “exquisite corpse” as per the Victorian parlor game where everyone takes turns drawing a person on a large folded paper, without knowing what the others have drawn. When it is unfolded, everyone has a good laugh about the anatomy of the person — hence the name “exquisite corpse.” It has nothing to do with zombies or dead people, it’s just the name of the parlor game.

For years I’ve dabbled in comics, but never for print. I learned the mechanics of story telling via the comic format, but never put that into practice. This was a perfect opportunity, and I’m really happy with my story. We were all given as many as eight pages to create, and I used all eight. In the end I realized that the characters I created for this story were a reflection of my daughters! One thing for sure, this story has made me want to do more comics, but I have to work that around my day-job schedule.

Does the book have a release date yet?

I wish I had a date of release, but I’m guessing we won’t have it ready and printed till the end of this year or the start of next year. Corralling artists is like the proverbial herd of cats. I’ll announce it on my blog when it happens.

It’s clear that you work easily in a variety of styles. Who are some of your biggest influences?

Some of my biggest influences aren’t really people working today, but rather those illustrators and artists of yesteryear. Arthur Rackham, Frank Frazetta, Heinrich Kley, JC Leyendecker, Albert Dorne and Gustav Tenngren.

More contemporary influences are the brilliant works of Jack Davis, Sergio Aragones, Harry North, Paul Coker and Mort Drucker of Mad Magazine.

Speaking of MAD Magzine, is it true that you also got to meet Jack Davis?

Oh yes. My friend Stephen Silver (character designer and creator of Kim Possible and Danny Phantom), was holding an award celebration for Jack and he invited me to come along. I was able to meet Jack, Serigo and Paul at that banquet. Really, another highlight in my art career.

Thank you SO much for joining us, Marcelo. It is truly an honor for you to spare some of your time with us.

Thanks for the interview Rondal, I appreciate the opportunity to share some of my thoughts with you and your readers!